Tuesday, October 03, 2006

King Henry IV -- Act 5, Scenes 3 and 4

Post a comment about Scene 4 or 5 here if you are a member of the Court, the Rebels, or the Pubcrawlers.

20 Comments:

Blogger kelsee p said...

5. I found it interesting to note that Falstaff prefers to live over having an honorable death. During this time period, it seems as though an honorable death would have been highly commendable and the reputor of that individual would have lived on to a greater extent than if they simply died in sickness or of old age. Therefore it seems weird when Falstaff says at the end of Act iii (64-67) "I like not such grinning honor as Sir Walter hath. Give me life; which I can save, so; if no, honor comes unlooked for, and there's an end." So,is showing either a more cowardly side or a less bostful side in this part of the play, but i really haven't decided which one.

Tue Oct 03, 04:35:00 PM 2006  
Blogger Stacie C said...

Reactions:
During the conversation between Prince Hal and Hotspur, I was shocked at their views of one another. First of all, they respect one another, and Hal considers Hotspur like a star in the same sphere as himself, saying, "I am the Prince of Wales, and think it not, Percy, To share with me in gloy any more. Two stars keep not their motion in one sphere, Nor can one England brook a double reign of Harry Percy and the Prince of Wales" (62-66). They seem to worry more about honor and vanity than they do about the overall state of England, which made me think that they don't truly understand the essense of warfare, and don't care about the welfare of their subjects, only their titles. Later in the same conversation, as Henry Percy lays dying, he accuses Hal of having "robbed me from my youth" (76). Why would Shakespeare have included this since Hotspur was older than Hal, and had spent his youth planning this revolution? Is he in some way jealous that Hal spent his time carousing? Finally, I also felt that Hal's treatment of Hotspur's body was profound, because instead of mutilating or humiliating his enemy, Hal places his scarves over the corpse's face. Why does Hal give Hotspur this final honor, and does he feel that it reconciles his past actions in some way?

Wed Oct 04, 07:35:00 PM 2006  
Blogger Dayna Z said...

Act 5, Scenes 3-4
#10: These two scenes are extremely important in the convergence of the worlds of the court and the pub-crawlers within Hal as he fights against the third world, the rebels. Hal really steps up and takes his rightful place in the court in these scenes. During the battle, he tells King Henry, “God forbid a shallow scratch should drive the Prince of Wales from such a field as this, where stained nobility lies trodden on, and rebels’ arms triumph in massacres” (5, IV, 10-13). Hal demonstrates real bravery here that is much more characteristic of a courtier than of a pub-crawler. He also even refers to himself as the “Prince of Wales,” a title that conveys his shift into the virtuous life he will finally live.

Hal also demonstrates his transformation into a monarch and the way he really does admire his father (maybe even view him partially as a role model) when he enters while King Henry and Douglas are fighting. Hal demands of Douglas, “Hold up thy head, vile Scot, or thou art like never to hold it up again…It is the Prince of Wales that threatens thee…” (38-39, 41). By defending his father in battle, Hal’s shift from a pub-crawler to a member of the court is clear. Also, instead of insulting Douglas in the manner that he used to joke around with the pub-crawlers, his insults to Douglas have a very different tone of dignity and true anger, rather than simply joking around.

Hal’s convergence of at least two of the worlds of the play is additionally emphasized by his giving Hotspur a kind, honorable death. Rather than repeating his pub-crawler habits of not caring about others and simply acting rashly for entertainment, he really values Hotspur’s life and treats his corpse with the dignity and respect of a true monarch. Hal has not completely switched to the world of the court and relinquished his pub-crawlers’ world though. He still speaks (mostly) kind words to Falstaff when he believes he died. Hal therefore unites the worlds of the pub-crawlers and the court as Part 1 of the play reaches its climax and begins to close.

Wed Oct 04, 08:56:00 PM 2006  
Blogger Kylee L said...

Act 5 Scene 4
2) The significance of scene 4 is to show the change made by Prince Hal from a disobedient, unpromising boy to an honorable and respectable man.

In this scene I finally see Prince Hal as the son that King Henry wanted him to be all along. The transformation of Prince Hal is very important because through this Hal helped out his dad against the Douglas and saved King Henry's life. The love and respect that Hal longed for from his father is finally deserved and given. King Henry is proud of Hal's bravery and determination to prove his honor.

Thu Oct 05, 05:13:00 PM 2006  
Blogger ChristyH said...

Act 5 Scenes 3 and 4 Responses:
4) Even though Falstaff disappoints me in these scenes because of his lack of valor, I still found his usual sense of humor to be a very good touch to such serious scenes. I loved when he said, "I am as hot as molten lead, and as heavy too. God keep lead out of me; I need to more weight than mine own bowels" (5.3.34-36). I love this quote because it illustrates Falstaff's realization that he is overweight, and he can't take any more in his gut. Though Hal and the others don't appreciate Falstaff's lack of bravery, as the reader it is funny to see Falstaff practically admit he is pathetic and hopeless.
Another quote that is really important to this scene is at the very end when Falstaff says, "I like not such grinning honor as Sir Walter hath. Give me life, which if I can save, so: if not, honor comes unlooked for, and there's an end" (5.3.58-60). This quote ties in to Falstaff's speech questioning the importance of honor in scene 1. I find it very ironic that Falstaff is really a good-for-nothing rebel and thief, and he even realizes it, yet he wants so much to spare his life! When Falstaff says this, he is illustrating his "indifference" to honor, but deep down he wants it the same as any other man.

Thu Oct 05, 07:24:00 PM 2006  
Blogger Eric G. said...

Lines I like: 26-28 Hotspur: The King hath many marching in his coats
The Douglas: Now, by my sword, I will kill all his coats./I'll murder all his wardrobe, piece by piece,/

I like this line simply becasue it has a double meaning. Hotspur refers to coats as in a coat of arms one would where to battle and Douglas talks about real coats. If I might add another pun in the mix, the King must have expensive coats because we all know that fur is murder.

Line 32-33: Though I could 'scape shot free at London,/ I fear the shot here.

Once again a double entendre. What's more to say?

Line 59, Hal: What, is it a timte to jest and dally now?

Funny that Hal's opening conversation with Falstaff was how Falstaff had no need for time. Now Hal is asking Falstaff if he thinks it is time to joke. These are also last words Hal says to Falstaff "alive". Wonder if it's on purpose?

Line 66 scene 4: Hal: Two stars keep not their motion in one sphere,/ Nor can one England brook a double reign.

To me this is the most intense part of the play. These lines are when in my opinion Hal throws off his past shackles and becomes a worthy heir to the King.

Line 87-88
Hotspur:No, Percy, thou art dust, And food for-
Prince: For worms, brave Percy.

I really like these lines because yet again I see a double meaning. This double meaning isn't in humor though. Of course Hotspur is literally worm food as he will be buried, but Hotspur never really recognizes Hal and maybe sees Hal as a worm. I find it even more interesting, if that is the case, that Hal is able to finish Hotspur's sentence and bids Hotspur supreme respect acknowledging that Hal truely was nothing more than a worm in his life.

Thu Oct 05, 08:59:00 PM 2006  
Blogger Molly M said...

Act 5, Scene 3 and 4
5 and 10)
I found it interesting that Falstaff refused to support Hal by giving him his sword. Hal was the one out fighting and Falstaff would not back him up or help him when he needed it. Falstaff says, "Nay, before God, Hal, if Percy be alive, thou get'st not my sword" (lines 50-51). Shakespeare uses this refusal and selfishness of Falstaff to illustrate what Hal has discovered in his search for role models. We have known for a while that Hal doesn't see Falstaff as a role model and now we see that Falstaff doesn't even treat Hal like a friend. He doesn't help Hal out when Hal needs it. This illustrates why Hal cannot spend time with the Pub Crawlers after he steps into his kingly role and why he has to "banish" them from his life. They will do nothing for him now. They won't protect him or offer support. That will come from the people close to the court. Shakespeare uses this to portray the necessity of Hal leaving the pub crawlers as friends. They aren't even his friends, and he needs friends if he is to fight battles as king.

Thu Oct 05, 09:36:00 PM 2006  
Blogger Steph Zepelin said...

I don't know...2?)
The part of these scene that this play wouldn't be the same without is when Falstaff is "dead" and Hal is talking to him. The end of the play wouldn't be nearly as good without this part. This part really shows Hal's true colors. Hal may have done some misbehaving but he is a very loyal person, as he demonstrates. He turns out to actually be a compasionate and caring friend.
I really just wanted to talk about that part.
AND this part is also hysterical when Hal finds out that Falstaff was alive the whole time.

Thu Oct 05, 10:12:00 PM 2006  
Blogger Maya R said...

6.
I am focusing on the meeting between Hal and Hotspur. Both men are confident in themselves and somewhat haughty. Hal tells Hotspur: "and think not, Percy, to share with me in glory any more. Two stars keep not their motion in one sphere..." At this point, Hal seems to boast of his position and power to beat Hotspur, however, he is also just claiming his place in the kingdom. Hotspur replies by claiming he is the better "name in arms." Obviously, Prince Hal is the winner of the duel. Historically speaking, he can't die; however, maybe Shakespeare goes to lengths to contrast Hal's and Hotspur's vanity to remark that pride comes before the fall. Hotspur was just too prideful to win this one.

Thu Oct 05, 11:06:00 PM 2006  
Blogger Justin L said...

Response to Act 5 Scene 3:

5) After reading Act 5 Scene 3, there was one main point that I felt needed to be mentioned. The first is the death of Blunt, dressed as a King by Douglas, and the meaning of such an incident on the meaning of the ongoing battle. As the battle opens this scene, Blunt, as King, states that “what is thy name that in battle thus thou crossest me” (5.3.1-2), bringing the reader to the thinking of the King, which is that why in the world would these people risk everything they have to fight the King? Who do they think they are? The response to this statement is the very epitome of what the rebel’s camp thinks about the purpose of this war, that they do “haunt thee in the battle” (5.3.5). Growing from the passion built by Hotspur in a previous chapter, this rude response to the King, Blunt acting, shows not only the rebel’s passion for this fight, but that his passion has spread among his follower’s, creating an army of mad soldiers, who lack any sense of respect to the King, even stating that a sword shall end him unless he becomes a prisoner of war (5.3.11). This statement utterly shocked me because it clearly proved the radicalism that is being embraced by the rebels in their fight against the established King of England. Beyond that, Douglas actually kills the King, who was portrayed by Blunt, setting in stone the atmosphere that this fight will occur in, which is that one can kill anyone, as long as they have wronged you, even the King. No one is immune from this fight. However, in the midst of this radicalism, Douglas does not notice that he did not kill the King, but only Blunt, a mere actor portraying the King, foreshadowing the downfall of the rebel’s cause. This is based upon the idea that their psychological state is so radical at this point, that no positive reaction can form out of such. Upon Hotspur’s entry, he recognizes that the murdered Blunt is Blunt and not the King, showing that Hotspur has lowered his radical thinking, yet transferred it on to those around him, creating an environment that puts the moment’s feelings above the long term goals of the movement. They are killing for the sake of it at this point, as evidenced by Douglas’s statement that “I will kill of his coats” (5.3.27). A movement can not live long at this point, showing the audience that he rebels will loose the battle not out of a lack of passion, but out of a lack of true commitment and the mob mentality, that was surprisingly common for that time period. Yet, in the end, the radicalism of the rebels was proven, by the actions that they continued to take throughout the rest of the scene, ultimately leading to the rebel’s downfall.

Thu Oct 05, 11:10:00 PM 2006  
Blogger Becca S said...

Act 5 Scene 3
1.) Blunt is disguised as the King and Douglas kills him, thinking he's killed the King. Hotspur comes and tells Douglas that it was just Blunt --the two leave in an effort to find the King. Falstaff enters and talks about how sad his troops were and how they are mostly dead now. The Prince enters and asks why he stands idle on a battlefield. Falstaff says he is tired from killing Percy. Hal knows that Falstaff is lying and asks for his sword. Falstaff says if Percy is alive he will not give the Prince his sword by Hal can have his pistol. Hal goes to get it and it is just a bottle of sack. Hal throws it on the ground angrily and Falstaff ends the scene by saying that he wants to live. Falstaff says he'll kill Percy if Percy comes upon him, but he knows that if he finds Percy, Percy will kill him --so he decides to stay put.

Fri Oct 06, 03:20:00 AM 2006  
Blogger Kaeli K said...

5) After reading this scene, I find myseld very impressed with Prince Henry and almost proud of the true character of his that is shinning through.
Examples:
lines 40-44
Henry asking Falstaff why he is just standing there while good men are out on the battleground dying. Then telling Falstaff to give him his sword so he can go fight.

Henry respects the art of battle and the men that are dying for HIS cause. This makes the reader respect Henry, especially because of his previous character.

Lines 38-42
Henry saves his father from Douglas extremely triumphantly.

Henry has proven himself to the reader that he is a strong, brave warrior, but more importantly to his father. He has just saved his father's life, and finally gains the much awaited respect the King and Prince both wanted.

Then finally at the end of the scene when Prince Henry fights Hotspur with dignity and fairly. Once the battle is over and Henry kills Hotspur, Henry honors the battle he has jus fought, his life, and his soul.
Henry really proves himself as a worthy person and gains the utmost respect. The reader knows that Henry will do great things in the future, and will be a great King, and even deserves that title.

I am truely in aw over Prince Henry.

Fri Oct 06, 07:19:00 PM 2006  
Blogger Lauren M said...

scene 3: 2.
The significance of this scene was to further prove Falstaff's worthlessness and that the main purpose of his character is comic relief. This scene also proves that he is a foil of Hal.

scene 4: 5.
Even though this is a battle scene, it's totally a feel-good scene filled with the moment we've all been waiting for: Hal FINALLY earns the respect of this father!! Henry is fighting Douglas (who has just killed Blunt) and has practically no chance of winning. When Hal sees that Henry is in danger of being killed, he valiantly fights off Douglas and a father-son moment ensues (aww). The mood of honor continues as Hotspur and Hal fight and Hal wins. Falstaff didn't disappoint me with his false account of his "battle" with Hotspur after Hal left. Falstaff stayed consistent with his fat, cowardly character.

Fri Oct 06, 07:25:00 PM 2006  
Blogger Robyn Louis said...

Summary
Scene 3- In this scene the battle finally begins. Douglas is looking around the battlefield for Henry. He thinks he finds the King and then kills him. When Hotspur enters, the Douglas learns that the man he killed was actually Blunt, disguised as the king. Hotspur and Douglas leave to continue looking for Henry.
Then Falstaff enters, followed by Prince Harry. Harry asks if he can borrow Falstaff’s sword because he has lost his own. Falstaff refuses to give him his sword because he fears that Percy may come for him. Falstaff jokes that he can have his pistol. The pistol turns out to be just a bottle of wine. Prince Harry is furious that Falstaff is joking and drinking at a time like this. Prince Harry takes off looking for a sword.

Scene 4- This scene opens with the King, Harry, his brother John, and Westmoreland. Harry is wounded but refuses to stop fighting. The Douglas finally finds the king himself and they begin to fight. It is apparent that the king is loosing when his son Harry comes to his rescue. Harry fights Douglas until he fleas. Henry then tells Harry that he has regained his respect. Then, Harry and Hotspur find each other and begin to battle to the death. While Harry and Hotspur and fighting, Douglas comes and attacks Falstaff. Falstaff falls to the ground and pretends to be dead. Finally, Harry kills Hotspur. After Harry runs off, Falstaff rises and decides to take credit for killing Hotspur. Harry and Lancaster find Falstaff who is carrying Hotspur. They obviously do not believe Falstaff when he says that he killed Hotspur. Harry finds out that they won when they hear the trumpets sounding the retreat.

Sat Oct 07, 03:52:00 PM 2006  
Blogger Melissa said...

Act V Scene 4

2. This scene pinpoints Hal's transormation into an honorable man, willing to fight and be responsible on his own. Of course, he has talked about breaking free and becoming the man his father wanted him to be before in the play, and there have previously been many turning points for him, for instance, his speech in act v scene 1 recognizing Hotspur and breaking from his father, and the third act, where he finally assumes a position to serve his father; yet, this scene is pivotal, and ground-breaking for Hal. He finally has to prove his loyalty, courage, and strength to his father and his men, and he steps up to the plate bravely in the scene. He proves himself magnificently as he defends his father from the bloody killer, Douglas, and he finally confronts Hotspur and defeats him as well. It is almost a final resolution for Hal, as he deals with both events. The tension between him and his father is finally released when the king, after being saved says, "Thou hast redeemed thy lost opinion,/And showed thou mak'st some tender of my life" (47-48), showing a compassion and love for Harry we have not seen before in this play. Also, Hal rids of the looming Hotspur once and for all, not only doing his country justice, but growing himself as a man.

Sat Oct 07, 04:19:00 PM 2006  
Blogger Dana A said...

Act V Scene III and IV-
10) The development of Hal in this scene and his true place in the nobility can truy be distinguished by this scene. Hal fights for the nobles and he fights honorably. He kills Hotspur, but the death is courtly and noble. He honors the tradition of fighting and is even respectful of the man plotting to kill him. Another element adding to Hal's image as a member of the court is the way he regards Falstaff. Falstaff tries to take the credit of killing Hotspur, another display of Falstaff's complete lack of anything resembling honor, but Hal just disregards him completely and says," This is the strangest tale I have ever heard." He isn't angered in the least bit and seems amused that Falstaff thinks his word will be believed over that of the now honorable and respected future king of England. Hal shows his true potential in this scene and that he will make a good king in the future.

Sun Oct 08, 05:31:00 PM 2006  
Blogger Karen W said...

Act 5 scene 3,4

10) I think that in this scene, Prince Hal finally becomes the person he has been searching for. He executes his actions and lives up to the role models he has compared himself to. The prince finally has a sense of duty toward his crown, something he has been trying to find for a while. Rather than taking leave in the heat of battle because he is wounded, he finds his place is next to his cause fighting while he still stands. He says, "And God forbid a shallow scratch should drive the Prince of Wales from such a field as this, where stained nobility lies trodden on, and rebels' arms triumph in massacres" (lines 11-14). His words demonstrate his sense of responsibility towards his people and to the crown. He understands that many good men have taken part in battle, and died to protect his reign. What kind of leader would he be if he retired and let their deaths be buried and forgotten? He must contribute, take charge, and live as the man he has been trying to become. He will have a hand in stopping the rebels. He will take charge of securing his future. This is an attitude the Prince has not yet shown, but for the first time, he follows through with his words, fights for his cause, and earns his father's respect. I personally believe the prince's search for a role model is over.

Sun Oct 08, 09:59:00 PM 2006  
Blogger sarahg said...

1. summary:

Scene III:
During the battle, Douglas aims to find King Henry. Instead, he comes across Sir Walter Blunt who is disguised as the king. Douglas kills Blunt in a fight. Hotspur finds them, and realizes Blunt's true identity. They go to find the real King Henry.

Falstaff tries to avoid the battle, and comes across Hal, who asks to borrow Falstaff's sword. He refuses, and the two go their separate ways.

Scene IV:
Hal, John, and Westmoreland go off to fight, despite Hal's injury, and leave Henry alone. The Douglas finds Henry, and the two engage in a one-on-one fight. Hal finds them, and challenges Douglas. Douglas flees back to the battle field. Hal leaves, again.

This time, Hotspur finds Hal alone. They agree to fight to the death. Falstaff re-enters and cheers for Hal. The Douglas comes back and attacks Falstaff, who pretends to die. Hal eventually kills Hotspur in battle. Then hal delivers a speech about the death of Falstaff, who is still laying on the ground, pretending to be dead. When hal leaves, Falstaff rises and stabs Hotspur in the leg. When Hal and John return, Falstaff tells them that Hotspur was still alive, and that Falstaff had to kill him by himself. Hal and John are distracted by the trumpets, which mean to retreat, and the three men go back to their base camp.

Sun Oct 08, 10:35:00 PM 2006  
Blogger Eric W. said...

3. Why does Falstaff act dead? Does he not care about having an honorable death and being a coward, or is he smart in saving his own life? Also, why does Douglas run off back to the battle field when he was talking so eloquently about killing the king? Is he a coward? Additionally, Hotspur and Prince Hal have a alot of respect for each other... why don't they talk about what they are trying to get out of this whole mess like two civilized people? Hotspur doesn't know the truth about the Court's agreement for peace does he? Before everyone kills each other, shouldn't there be some sort of diplomatic meeting?

Mon Oct 09, 12:36:00 PM 2006  
Blogger Chaser said...

I think that the fact that Falstaff feigns his death is only further proof of his insecurity and lack of substance. I know that sounds really harsh, but consider the fact that dying during a war would most likely be considered a very noble thing to do. At the same time, one might say that death is not worth it just for the glory of having died during battle because the individual would be humble. However, let's be realistic: that is not Falstaff in even the least. I know that dying during battle and the glory associated with it is questioned repeatedly during these scenes, but it is not a surprise to me that Falstaff would do something as pathetic as pretending to be dead. The main reason I say this is because then, he gets up, and later takes credit for killing Hotspur. Not only does he reveal his own weakness of pretending to be dead, but he also suggests that Hotspur was doing the same thing and that if he hadn't pretended to be dead, Hotspur could have lived. I think Hal realizes that this is ridiculous, and I think that is the main reason he never actually calls Falstaff on it. Falstaff does enough to convey his weakness, and Hal has come so far and matured so much that he is not about to revert back to an attitude of pride and power-hungry egotism. I think that Falstaff has really been a foil to Prince Henry as he has matured, and this scene confirms the change in Hal as well as the parallel of Falstaff's character now to what it was even in the beginning of the play.

Wed Oct 11, 12:59:00 PM 2006  

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