Tuesday, September 19, 2006

King Henry -- 3.1.1-197 and Instructions

Please post your comments for Scene 1, lines 1-197 of Act 3 of Henry IV, Part 1 here.

Instructions for Act 3 comments:

Rebels:
Comment on the last half of Scene 1 (lines 198-276) or Scene 2.
Comment on Scene 3.

Court:
Comment on the first half of Scene 1 (lines 1-197).
Comment on Scene 3.

Pub Crawlers:
Comment on the first half of Scene 1 (lines 1-197).
Comment on the last half of Scene 1 (lines 198-276) or Scene 2.

Please complete your first 2 comments by Friday, September 22.

All Groups:Put your third comment on Mrs. Makovsky”s class blog:

http://makovsky3.blogspot.com

You will be responding to one of her students’ comments. Please complete your third comment by Tuesday, September 26.

Blog comment prompts:
1. Summarize the action of the scene.
2. Comment in one sentence on what you think is the significance of this scene. What would the play be like without it?
3. Ask questions about the scene. Has anything in the scene caused you confusion? Ask one of the characters in the scene a question—or ask me a question.
4. Quote lines from the scene that you enjoyed and comment on them.
5. Describe your reactions to a character, action, or idea you confronted in the scene.
6. Talk about the relationships characters have to one another, quoting specific words or phrases to give evidence for your opinion.
7. Pretend you are an actor playing one of the characters in the scene. Get inside that character’s mind. Tell how the character feels about herself, about other characters, about the situation of the scene.
8. Trace a set of images. Do you notice certain images—like night or moon or food or fat—coming up time and time again? Produce a list of citations—every time that your word appears. Then look for patterns. Are the images associated with certain people or places or events? Discuss the impact of your image on the play.
9. Discuss the motifs of robbery and rebellion, or honor and courage, or wholeness (both individual and national) in each “world” of the play.
10. Discuss Hal’s search for role models; how do his companions educate him about his country? How do the three worlds of the play—Court, Rebel, Tavern—converge in him?

36 Comments:

Blogger Sean K said...

3.1-197
5)
At the beginning of scene three, I was surprised by Glendower’s pretentious comments when he boasts that the Earth trembled in fear of his nativity. This could be used to characterize the Welsh as prideful. Also, I was confused when he challenged Hotspur to find a human that could match him in occult experiments because I could not determine if this was a cynical remark to Hotspur, or the truth. He does mention how he used it to make King Henry IV walk home bootless and Mortimer says that he is well read in strange topics. Since Glendower is the host of the meeting, he could be telling these stories as entertainment before they revise the map. Finally, I wondered if Glendower offended Hotspur in asking for more land during the meeting.

Tue Sep 19, 05:02:00 PM 2006  
Blogger Molly M said...

Act 3 Beginning of Scene 1

3)

Throughout the majority of this scene, Glendower refers to magic or supernatural ideas. For instance, having the ability to summon the devil and the Earth trembling at his birth. I know in Macbeth, Shakespeare included the witches for audience entertainment. Is that the same reason he is including this? If not, why else would he include these details? Also I was curious if it will play a role later on in the play and there will be magical occurrences or involvement?

Wed Sep 20, 07:55:00 PM 2006  
Blogger Steph Zepelin said...

response to Act 3 Scene 1 (lines 1-198)

4)
"I say the earth did shake when I was born"- Glendower
I like this quote because it expresses Glendower's personality. He is dominearing, or at least he thinks he is, and he is self-important...as if HIS birth could shake the earth.

"and I can teach thee, coz, to shame the devil/ By telling the truth."- Hotspur
This quote really hit me and I like it a lot. It is so witty, and really sounds like something that Hotspur would say. Also, this quote has a moral. By telling the truth, you shame the devil because you are not giving in to his temptation to lie. Maybe someone should read this quote to prince Hal...

"I can speak English, lord, as well are you,/ For I was trained up in the English court,/ Where being but young I framed to the harp/ Many an English ditty lovely well/ And gace the tongue a helpful ornament-/ A virtue that was never seen in you." -Glendower
I don't really understand this quote but I do like it. Is Glendower trying to say that he is polite and Hotspur is not? Or that he is a better speaker than Hotspur? Someone help me clarify!

"The moon shines fair. You may away by night."- Glendower
This quote creates vivid images in my mind and also follows the night and day motif.

"Sometimes he angers me/ With telling me of the moldwarp and the ant,/ Of the dreamer Merlin and his prophecies/ And of a dragon and a finless fish,/ A clip-winged griffin and a moulten raven,/ A couching lion and a ramping cat/ And such a deal of skimble-skamble stuff"- Hotspur
I like this quote because I think it could be sung...It just sounds sing-song-y. I recognize that it plays into the motif of animals. What is the signifigance of each of the things he lists?

Wed Sep 20, 09:24:00 PM 2006  
Blogger Matt P said...

3.1 (1-197)
3)
In this scene the "devil" is referenced several times:
Glendower - "Why I can teach you, cousin, to command/ The devil" (55-56).
Hotspur - "And I can teach thee, coz, to shame the devil/ By telling truth, and shame the devil....O, while you live, tell truth, and shame the devil" (57,58,61).
Hotspur - "How 'scapes he agues, in the devil's name?" (67,68).
Hotspur - "In reckoning up the several devils' names" (156).

I am quite confused about what these references mean. The devil is obvously seen in a negative light, but Glendower claims to be able to command him. What does the devil represent for these men? I noticed that Glendower claims to be able to command the devil through conjuring and witchcraft, while Hotspur claims that he can shame the devil by telling the truth. I think this contrasts Glendower and Hotspur by showing Glendower's background in "deep-magic," and Hotspur's belief in the more christian and valiant beliefs, like telling the truth. Glendower is concerned with using the devil to his advantage, while Hotspur wants to shame the devil and keep him away. However, both men are working together for the same cause, so, does the devil have some connection with King Henry IV?

Wed Sep 20, 09:24:00 PM 2006  
Blogger Chaser said...

5) Glendower is an interesting character, and he appears to embody the Welsh culture himself. He is the leader of the Welsh rebels and his daughter-in-law Lady Mortimer is also an example of the differences between the English and the Welsh. Consider how she cannot easily communicate or agree with her husband and the possible cultural differences this suggests. Even though he is a strong mix of English and Welsh society, he is very knowledgeable in the English language and customs. However, his claims to be a magician able to summon demons, along with his belief of the omens that he thinks became existent when he was born reflect his strong commitment to his pagan heritage, a Welsh belief and tradition.

Thu Sep 21, 11:45:00 AM 2006  
Blogger kjohnst said...

Hey Steph~

In responding to your question, I believe that Glendower is essentially responding to Hotspur's prejudice towards the Welsh; he sardonically replies that he is fully capable of speaking English well. He adds that HE was also blessed with the ability to sing, unlike Hotspur, and was trained in the king's court. Up until this point, Hotspur's brash manner has thrown him off guard, and Mortimer warns him of his offense; no one speaks to Glendower like that! Glendower is replying to Hotspur's hostility through this patronizing/admonishing tone. Sadly, I don't think Hotspur can ever be put in his place, as he is completely inflated with self importance.

Thu Sep 21, 08:07:00 PM 2006  
Blogger Melissa said...

3.1.1-197

6) Hotspur and Glendower's relationship in the beginning of scene 3 was quite interesting to me.

As the group of Rebel leaders attempts to devise their plan for the rebellion against King Henry IV, Hostpur and Glendower are constantly bickering and fighting. Hotspur begins by mocking Glendower when he speaks of his strong belief in Welsh pagan traditions of magic, and when he says that the Earth trembled and the sky was fiery when he was born. Hostpur makes fun of Glendower's claims of having magical power, "...he angers me/With telling me of the moldwarp and the ant, of the dreamer Merlin and his prophecies..." (146-148). He is bored by Glendower, and has no respect for the man, even though he is incredibly respected and strong. Hostpur also begins another fight with Glendower when the men are divvying up land on the map. He is unsatisfied with his territory and wants to alter it; Glendower disagrees with him. They fight even more, until eventually Glendower ends the fight and leaves.

The entire scene, Hotspur disrespects Glendower, a high and mighty man. Hotspur is on fire! He dislikes Glendower, and I suspect there is some jealousy in the relationship. He is constantly trying to make Glendower look like a fool, what with making fun of his beliefs. He also demands that he get more land than Glendower.

Glendower, however, tolerates Hotspur. Mortimer tells Hotspur, "He holds your temper in a high respect/And curbs himself even of his natural scope/When you come 'cross his humor" (168-170), to let him know that Hotspur is not witnessing Glendower's temper. Why is that? Maybe Glendower sees some of himself in Hotspur; maybe he wants Hotspur to succeed and thinks that he will be a good aid for the rebellion. Any opinions?

Thu Sep 21, 10:46:00 PM 2006  
Blogger Melissa said...

Matt--

I really liked your ideas. I also think that (to add to your comment about the contrast between the two men) there is another contrast/irony in that Glendower is concerned with summoning the devil and pagan, unholy practices, yet he is somewhat of a better person from what I can see than Hotspur. The whole scene they bicker and fight, yet Glendower tolerates Hotspur. It is also Hotspur that initiates the bickering, and mocks Glendower for his beliefs and practices. He is just plain rude. Hotspur may have attractive beliefs in saying that he may shame the devil by telling the truth, by he is acting a devil by being so rude and close-minded towards Glendower.

Thu Sep 21, 11:32:00 PM 2006  
Blogger Stacie C said...

Act III, i. 1-197
Significant Sentence
(Worcester is speaking to Hotspur) "You must needs learn, lord, to amend this fault[impatience]. Though sometimes it shew greatness, courage, blood, (and that's the dearest grace it renders you), yet oftentimes it doth present harsh rage, defect of manners, want of government, pride, haughtiness, opinion, and disdain, the least of which, haunting a nobleman, looseth men's hearts and leaves behind a stain upon the beauty of all parts besides, beguiling them of commendation" (175-183) I found this quote significant because it serves as a warning to Hotspur, and suggests that he may try to act without being aware of the entire situation. How has Hotspur shown his impatience in the past? Clearly, he has a hot temper, (irony of his name), and seemed to become angry very rapidly while talking to King Henry in the first act. Worcester tells Hotspur to work for patience-- does this foreshadow some kind of internal change in Hotspur? Will he learn to work with others and act wisely? It seems like Worcester is issuing a very general warning, that all of the characters need to develop a balance between acting spontaneously, i.e.,responding valiantly to a surprise attack, and acting without caution and without understanding the situation.

Fri Sep 22, 09:52:00 AM 2006  
Blogger Maya R said...

8.
Something Shakespeare does often is talk about the influence man's actions has on the environment. This convention are associated with Glendower and Hotspur in this scene.
"At my nativity the front of heaven was full of fiery shapes, of burning cressets, and at my birth the frame and huge foundation of the earth shak'd like a coward" (12-16).
In lines 95-118, Hotspur tells the others that he wants to fix the windy river that blocks off much of his land. Glendower disagrees with this and they discuss it.
This motif reveals the difference between Glendower and Hotspur. Glendower boasts of his indirect affect on the world. His illustration about his birth is absurd and he is mocked by Hotspur. On the other hand, Hotspur directly speaks about affecting the environment. He will physically alter the river on his property. When Glendower tells him not to do this, it suggests Glendower may be jealous of Hotspur's influence on the world. Glendower can only pretend to make a difference to the world, while Hotspur actually does something to matter.

Fri Sep 22, 10:51:00 AM 2006  
Blogger Dana A said...

Scene 3 Act 1(1-197)
4)Glendower: "I say the earth did shake when I was born"
Hotspur: "And I say the earth was not of my mind, if you suppose as fearing you it shook."
Glendower: "The heavens were all on fire, the earth did tremble."

I liked this part of the scene because to me it seemed like Glendower was not truly serious about the earth having shook upon his birth, he was simply poking fun at Hotspur. Hotspur is not the kind of character who appreciates when he is not the initiator of a joke. I believe Glendower was simply trying to get under Hotspur's skin and watch him get fired up for pure enjoyment. Also, it seems that Hotspur takes Glendower's joke as a way to undermine his authority, something Hotsput will not take lightly.

Hotspur:"Let me not understand you then, speak it in Welsh."
Glendower:"I can speak English, lord, as well as you."

Now it seems Hotspur is throwing Glendower's joke right back at him, though to me it seems Hotspur's jokes have a harsher tone and directly insult Glendower. He basically insults Glendower's manhood, by saying he does not speak English well. But Glendower,even when he is offended has self-control and honor and refers to Hotspur as "lord" even though Hotspur is rude.

I believe that both these sections of the scene help to futher show us Hotspur's hot-headed dishonorable character. He clearly has no respect for his elders, by rudely insulting Glendower and can not take a simple joke without having to get all fired up about it. Maybe this shows that even though Hotspur seems overly confident in his position, deep down he is not and has to convince himself that he has authority by undermining everyone else's.

Fri Sep 22, 11:14:00 AM 2006  
Blogger Dayna Z said...

Act 3, Scene 1 (beginning)
# 7: If I were acting as Hotspur in this scene, I would be having a great time half-mocking Glendower and acting pretty arrogant. Beginning when Glendower states, “And at my birth the frame and huge foundation of the earth shaked like a coward” (14-16) and continuing throughout the rest of the scene, Hotspur laughingly rejects every claim of self-importance Glendower makes. Hotspur replies to Glendower’s declaration that the earth shook when he was born by suggesting that an earthquake would have happened whether Glendower was born that day or not – in fact, if his mom’s cat had had kittens that day, an earthquake still would have occurred. Hotspur intends to put Glendower back in his place, but Glendower continues making arrogant claims until Hotspur states, “And I say the earth was not of my mind, if you suppose as fearing you it shook” (20-21). Hotspur is again insulting Glendower by saying that if he asserts that the earth shook because it was afraid such a powerful person was being born, Hotspur does not agree with the earth. Hotspur comes right out and says that he does not fear Glendower. As an actor, I would be laughing, and rudely mocking during most of the scene. He acts as if he knows he is better than Glendower and Glendower should therefore not even try to claim he can even compare to the mighty Hotspur.

Fri Sep 22, 03:04:00 PM 2006  
Blogger Lauren M said...

3.1 lines 1-197
5.)
In the beginning of scene one in act three, magic and superstitions are mentioned for the first time in King Henry IV. I believe Shakespeare used this new idea as somewhat of a comic relief and also to highlight Hotspur's behavior towards Glendower. Glendower is a very important ally, however Hotspur makes fun of him and argues ridiculously with him. Although I can understand how easy it would be to not mock Glendower, I probably wouldn't do it to his face. Hotspur, however, has no trouble in doing so. This is yet another example of why he is called Hotspur. His temper and bitter attitude towards everyone shows through significantly in this scene.

Also, it seems that Glendower uses dark magic and his connections with the devil to seize control over others. They fear the devil because Glendower tells them to. However Hotspur calls him on it: "I can teach thee, coz, to shame the devil/ by telling truth, and shame the devil... O, while you live, tell truth, and shame the devil." He says to shame the devil instead of obeying him. This is probably one of the first occasions when Glendower is faced with having to defend his opinions, and he becomes very defensive and starts an argument. Percy is admirable in the way that he can question anyone's authority. Although he is scolded for his base behavior, I thought it was pretty awesome how he provoked Glendower's dominance.

Fri Sep 22, 04:23:00 PM 2006  
Blogger Lauren M said...

My last comment was 6, not 5. Oops! :)

Fri Sep 22, 04:25:00 PM 2006  
Blogger dharmabum4 said...

Greetings from Mr. Kleeman's class. This is in response to Steph's post and the quote "and I can teach thee, coz, to shame the devil/ By telling the truth."

I also enjoyed this witty quote and it seemed to me like a perfect response to Glendower bragging about how he can use magic (whether he can or not remains to be seen). Once again, Shakespeare is setting Hotspur up against Hal, the two Harrys, to illustrate their characters. Hotspur is blunt, he speaks what is on his mind and he doesn't care what other people think. Shakespeare also sets Hotspur up as a moral person here; as Stephanie said, this quote has a moral about honesty.

In our class, we've been questioning if Hal really is a moral person because he puts on this deceitful guise to further his own ends. Here it appears as if Hotspur is more moral as he always speaks the truth, and Hal is the lower Harry. However, I can't help but think less of Hotspur, because his enterprise is also motivated by greed and his blunt and overbearing nature seems ignorant when compared to Hal's subtlty. In Hotspur there is no tact, no regal attitude, and in the context of the play, he is the villain.

Fri Sep 22, 07:42:00 PM 2006  
Blogger Karen W said...

Act 3 scene 1 begining

Some quotes I liked:

Glendower "The heavens were all on fire and the earth did tremble" (25). It's interesting because this entire scene seems to show that Glendower has an interest in magic and power coming from that magic. This description of Glendower's power seems to be what we might call sunrise and an earthquake. So then maybe Glendower's claims aren't completely off base when he claims, "the earth did shake when I was born" (22).

Mortimer "Come, come, no more of this unprofitable chat" (66). Mortimer breaks up an argument between Hotspur and Glendower, which i find ironic. There is peace talk between war makers. The fact that the rebels are fighting amongst themselves is relevant to their individual characteristics. Those who make war with a common enemy eventually make war among themselves. I think that's a message Shakespeare is trying to portray. Once the peace makers choose a side, there will be no one to stop bickering amongst the rebels.

Fri Sep 22, 10:47:00 PM 2006  
Blogger sarahg said...

3.1
#3

The thing which i wish to address concerns all of scene one, so the following response will be over the entire scene.

Reading this scene made me realize that I doubt Hotspur's ability to be the next king, or even a strong leader of the rebellion. He expresses many attributes that are unfit for a king. His mocking of Glendower is both imature and impolite. Even when he is told that he is in the wrong, Hotspur gives a half-hearted apology. Hotspur also complains about the territory that he will gain after the rebellion is finished. This is another imature action. Finally, continuing from Act II, Hotspur's relationship with his wife, and the way that he speaks with her, seems very inappropriate. He acts more like a boy than a man, and obviously, a man is needed to rule groups of people, armies, and kingdoms.

Fri Sep 22, 11:23:00 PM 2006  
Blogger sarahg said...

SORRY, that was #5, not #3

Fri Sep 22, 11:23:00 PM 2006  
Blogger Becca S said...

Act 3 Scene 1 Lines 1-197

3.) Hotspur says in lines 142-158 that he is so cross to Glendower because Glendower annoys him and tells him things he doesn't care about. Is Hotspur really telling the truth or is he rude because Glendower threatens him?

We know that Hotspur is a foil to Hal because they are both relatively the same age and are constantly compared to eachother because the King is jealous of Hotspur. In this half of the scene Hotspur is defying authority by challenging and making fun of Glendower. Hal has a similar relationship with his father. Will defying authority become a character flaw or attribute throughout the novel? Will it help or hurt Hotspur and Hal? Who will be successful?

Did Mortimer marry Glendower's daughter for a family alliance? Because them not being able to speak the same language suggests they didn't love eachother tooooooo much.

Sat Sep 23, 01:04:00 PM 2006  
Blogger CarliannB said...

Response to Stacie

I also thought those lines were very important and powerful in expressing some of Hotspur’s weaknesses. But I don’t think Hotspur will experience some kind of internal change later on in the play. Hotspur’s temper makes him who he is and allows him to be a foil to Prince Hal. Eventually Hal comes to embrace his status as prince and thus his duties. Hal essentially improves his character. If Hotspur were to do the same he wouldn’t be as good of a foil to Hal. This seemingly makes Hotspur the villain and Hal the hero. However, at the beginning of the play these roles seem reversed. But by this point in the play the reader has seen more and more of Hotspur’s “dark side.” In Shakespeare’s plays the villain tries to manipulate time which is a difficult task but in scene i Hotspur wants to physically manipulate land: “I’ll have the current in this place damned up, and here the mug and silver Trent shall run in a new channel, fair and evenly” (105-107). Not only is Hotspur challenging nature here but he continues to challenge authority. I think this will eventually led to his downfall in his final battle with Hal.

Sun Sep 24, 09:50:00 AM 2006  
Blogger KatieF said...

Hey Dana, and the rest of Mr. Sale's class!

I liked that first quote you mentioned too! It seems to ilustrate that Hotspur is wound way to tightly and takes things very personally, even when they are meant to be a joke. I first saw this when he was so put out over the King wanting his prisoners. I mean, he's the KING...I'd do what he had asked...But Hotspur's character seems to have so much pride and yet so much insecurity that he can't let anyone brush him aside or kid with him without getting all excited.

Sun Sep 24, 02:18:00 PM 2006  
Blogger Sarah A said...

In response to Becca S:

I think that Hotspur is so aggressive toward Glendower because he is threatened by him, not because he is annoyed by Glendower's fanciful stories of the day he was born. Although we know that Hotspur is hot-headed, I don't think that he would attack Glendower so viciously just for bragging about the way the earth "did shake when [he] was born". Hotspur is a strong leader who refuses to be led himself, which creates conflict between himself and Glendower.

As for Hal and Hotspur's tendencies to defy authority, I think it will ultimately turn out to be a weakness for both of them. Although defying Richard II's authority got Henry his throne, I think its a strong quality of a leader to allow himself to be led in matters in which others might know better. After all, Hal has been defying Henry the whole time he has been carousing with the pub crawlers, and it has not done wonders for his prospective career as King. If either of the two will wise-up and start listening to others, I think it will ultimately be Hal as opposed to Hotspur, as Hal has already somewhat reconciled with his father and is beginning to take on more responsibility, but Hotspur seems too proud and rash to realize that some good things come from the input and guidance of an authority figure.

And I definately agree with you that the language barrier between Mortimer and his wife suggests a marriage of status and convenience rather than love. I think the same thing could be asked about all the romantic relationships that we've seen so far in the play.

Sun Sep 24, 03:15:00 PM 2006  
Blogger taliac said...

Hey Molly!
I think that Glendower’s magical abilities are included to show an aspect of his character. Glendower says a lot of strange things that don’t make sense, like the earth trembling with his birth for example. I think that Glendower is a lot of talk and is trying to make himself sound better than he really is. I also think that it might come back when they actually go into battle and we’ll see if he really can beat Henry easily.

Sun Sep 24, 04:08:00 PM 2006  
Blogger jennis said...

Maya,
I thought your perspective on this nature motif was really interesting. I kind of see the relationship with Hotspur and Glendower in an opposite manner however. I think that Glendower’s connection to nature is deeply rooted in his culture and is mystical and highly valued. While Glendower does make some outrageous claims about his nativity and the Earth, these stories merely enhance his powerful and mysterious persona. I think Hotspur’s responses towards Glendower and nature reveal a rather juvenile and close-minded view about the world around him. For instance, when Glendower says, “The earth did shake when I was born”, Hotspur replies, “The earth was not of my mind if you suppose as fearing you it shook.” I think that Hotspur is rude here and proves his ignorance for the Welsh’ connection to nature. Also, when Hotspur suggests simply changing the river to fit his boundaries in war, it displays his need for control over nature, which is kind of impossible. I think rather than proving that Hotspur will make a mark on the world and Glendower won’t, this scene highlights Hotspur’s aggression and blind-sighted boldness, which might be his undoing. Great thoughts and thanks for sparking my own reflections!

Sun Sep 24, 05:20:00 PM 2006  
Blogger AllisonF said...

Maya--responding to your observatons about the relationship between Glendower and Hotspur...
I agree with your observations. Glendower becomes upset when Hotspur desires to change the course of the river, but i do not believe he feels threatened. This might seem a little far fetched, but i see the relationhip between Glendower and Hotspur as being similar to Dennis the Menace and his grumpy old neighbor, Mr. Wilson. No matter what Glendower says to establish a position of authority, Hotspur jumps right back in his fave with a smart alec remark, making Glendower appear foolish and hot headed. On top of his frustration with Hotspur for degrading his honor, I believe that Glendower feels it necessary to attempt to gain control one last time by attempting to veto the decision to build a dam on the river. However, his position of authority and honor is smashed as young Hotspur once again plows through with childish remarks. As obnoxious as Hotspur is behaving towards Glendower, I believe that their relationship is half playful.
I can call spirits from the vasty deep./
Why, so can I, or so can any man, But will they come when you do call for them? (III.i.51-53)

Thoughout their dialogue, they throw witty comebacks to one another. Despite Glendower's annoyed responses, he states that he is putting up with Hotspur's childish behavior although he would not tolerate it from anyone else. Their vocabulary used is not harsh enough to be taken totally serious, which leads me to believe that this dialogue is merely taking place in a state of emotion.

Mon Sep 25, 12:29:00 AM 2006  
Blogger BriannaC said...

Hi Matt!!

In reading your quotes referencing the devil, I wonder if the two are likening King Henry IV to the devil. Because of Henry's dishonest assent to power, by telling the truth would shame the king tremendously and severely disrupt the Divine Right idea. That almost gives Glendower and Hotspur blackmail/power over the king. Do you think that could come into play later?

Mon Sep 25, 03:57:00 PM 2006  
Blogger EmilyW said...

Dayna--

I completely agree with your interpretation of Hotspur. I think that his attitude is very mocking of Glendower. I think that he is a very good match against Glendower's ego, because he doesn't fall into it, but resists it. Also, I had to laugh when you wrote that if you were playing Hotspur, you would just kind of laugh and roll your eyes at Glendower, because I could definately see that. Although some may argue that Hotspur's reaction to Glendower is not sarcasm at all, but indeed reverence, I feel that he would make for a much more dynamic character if he was seen in the mocking way that you could portray him as. Good work!

Mon Sep 25, 10:13:00 PM 2006  
Blogger Emily S said...

Sarah G. - I completely agree with your argument that Hotspur is unfit for a position as king after his conversation with Glendower and Mortimer. In my blog I questioned Hotspur's sudden change in attitude from being trustworthy and potential ruler to an immature child. He is acting more like Prince Hal is known to behave, not like a man that King Henry IV believes would be a great person to be crowned king after he dies. I believe that Hotspur, when faced with important decisions like the ones he conversed with Glendower and Mortimer about, tends to cower in the face of such superiority and acts childish and immature. He is obviously unfit to be crowned a king based on his impolite mocking of Glendower and his unwillingness to compromise, and would be a terrible ruler of the kingdom.

Mon Sep 25, 10:19:00 PM 2006  
Blogger marci said...

Karen-
"Glendower "The heavens were all on fire and the earth did tremble" (25). It's interesting because this entire scene seems to show that Glendower has an interest in magic and power coming from that magic. "
I have to slightly disagree with the "magicn and power" statement-- or, rather, just pose a question. My interpretation was that Glendower was either
(a) exagerrating his importance or
(b) simply jesting with Hotspur.
So, my question: was the "fire and Earth trembling" when Glendower was born really a statement alluding to magic or merely Glendower making himself seem more important than he really is?
i may be totally wrong, but for some reason "magic and power" did not seem (to me) to be what Glendower was alluding to. I reserve the right to be completely wrong, but if you have more textual evidence to back up your "magic" and "power" theory, I'd love to see it.

Mon Sep 25, 10:58:00 PM 2006  
Blogger Meghan L said...

Maya and Karen,

Maya, your interpretation of the dialogue between Hotspur and Glendower was really interesting! While reading it I definitely thought about it in a different way. I wonder what would happen if we were to combine your interpretation and Karen’s interpretation, they are different but both understandable.
I think the different impacts that Glendower and Hotspur have on the environment are the main concept, but “the earth shaking” could mean an earthquake like Karen suggested, in which case the two still create different impacts on the natural environment.

Mon Sep 25, 10:58:00 PM 2006  
Blogger Kristen said...

In response to Melissa:
I completely agree; Glendower and Hotspur had a fascinating relationship. Hotspur further proves how hot-headed he is, as he argues and insults Glendower, a powerful man that’s on the same side. I honestly can't stand Hotspur anymore. As Melissa said, he is bored by Glendower and completely lacks respect for the honored man. Hotspur even argues against the division of the land; he's totally incapable of just cooling down. The fact that Hotspur so rudely dismisses and makes fun Glendower's pagan/welsh beliefs makes me dislike him more. I don't understand him much… probably because I'm overanalyzing him. Perhaps Shakespeare created this one-faceted character for a reason. I just don't know what. Hotspur doesn't change at all. When he talks to men of any status, from the king and Glendower to anyone lower than him, he loses his temper and basically explodes. I have absolutely no idea why Glendower would put up with him. I suppose a steady relationship between two conniving rebels is needed for a victory, but if I was Glendower, I would be enraged with some of the insults that Hotspur was throwing out. I don't know if I would say that Glendower is being patient because he sees himself in Hotspur. Obviously, Glendower, with his undoubtedly inflated ego, is able to control his temper and talk rationally to men. Hotspur on the other hand can't seem to bring himself to do that.

Tue Sep 26, 12:15:00 AM 2006  
Blogger chantalb said...

In response to Steph Z

I am going to take a stab at what the symbolism of Hotspur's quote about Glendower could be. The mole and the ant could symbolize the work that needs to be done, which both these creatures could accomplish, but in different fashions. A mole is typically blind and works singly rather than in a team as ants do. Glendower could be hinting that the rebels need to open their eyes and work together in order to accomplish their mission. Furthermore, the dragon and the finless fish could refer to Hotspur being a strong leader, like a dragon, and Hal flopping around like a fish, and not just any fish, but a spineless one. Finally, the lion and cat would have to symbolize the existing kingdom and the group of rebels. The cat is smaller and sneakier, not unlike King Henry's tactics of obtaining the crown. In addition, the cat is ramping, or wild and excitable. King Henry is on edge because he knows that an attack is coming. The couching lion represents the rebel group and their strength. They are angry and even vicious. Moreover, the lion is the king of all cats so this could symbolize who the true king should be. That was my valiant attempt at deciphering Shakespeare's code! I hope it doesn't confuse you more!

Tue Sep 26, 01:12:00 AM 2006  
Blogger Eric W. said...

2) The significance of this scene is to illustrate how close Mortimer and Hotspur are ready for battle and to reveal Hotspur's and Glendower's suffering relationship. Without it, We would have no idea how the rebels are gathering their armies. Furthermore, we would not know how England will be broken up after the war. Also, without the passionate debate with Hotspur and Glendower, we wouldn't know how much each one truly opposes one another.

Tue Sep 26, 06:43:00 AM 2006  
Blogger Arielle said...

Response to Sarah G-

I agree that Hotspur's boyish passion seems to make him unfit for a king. But as many people have mentioned, he is a foil to Hal; does this mean that Hal is fit to be a king? I'm not sure either has exibited remarkable traits. Hotspur may be too passionate and hot-headed, but it is that aggression that is important during times of war and conflict. Hal has, thus far, proven to be passive and unwilling to step of to the challenge of royalty.

Also, King Henry IV acquired his royal position through immoral stealth, not divine right or justice. What kind of leader is he? Can his type of leadership be more closely related to Hotspur or Hal? Does the country necessarily want a leader like Henry again?

Tue Sep 26, 09:49:00 AM 2006  
Blogger miam said...

Hey Mr Sale's Class!

I was intrigued by what Becca said about Hal and Hotspur as foils. Like she said, in the beginning of the play we see Hal measured up against Hotspur. The king struggles to deal with (what he thinks is) a failure of a son when compared to the valiant warrior Hotspur has proven to be. Becca asked "Will defying authority become a character flaw or attribute throughout the novel? Will it help or hurt Hotspur and Hal? Who will be successful?". I think it’s crucial to remember that we are dealing with the always important Act III in a Shakespeare play, meaning the turning point of the play takes place in this act. I think we are beginning to see a turnaround in both of these characters. Hal is taking on a more significant, honorable role in the play when he promises to fight for his father against the rebels. Hotspur, on the other hand has been steadily losing the respect of the audience. Like Becca touched on, I think it will be really interesting to see which of them ends up more successful at the end of the play. Will Hal prove himself like he planned on earlier in the novel?

Tue Sep 26, 10:06:00 AM 2006  
Blogger barbarab88 said...

7)
Glendower:
I cannot believe this kid! Why is he being so rude and mocking every bit of my beliefs? I am the elder, the leader. His success depends on me and what I do. He believes he has a right to move a river! He is but a boy! A young boy! When I was born the earth shook and I can command the devil! How dare he believe that he has more power than me. He must learn to respect his elders and the wise. He must learn.

Wed Sep 27, 11:01:00 PM 2006  

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